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SIMON SAYS : A conversation with Simon Fisher Turner
To celebrate the release of Simon Fisher Turner's new album, the download-only I'll Sleep When I'm Dead soundtrack, Documentary Evidence's Mat Smith spoke to the eclectic long-term Mute artist Mr Turner about the album, his past life as a 1970s heart-throb pop idol and all points in between.
MAT SMITH : How would you describe the new album, the soundtrack to I'll Sleep When I'm Dead? I've read that it consists of improvisations - given that this is effectively a score to the Mike Hodges movie, does improvising present complications with timings etc? I presume you improvise 'in front' of the film so to speak, so what's it like to watch it back as a spectator rather than participator?
SIMON FISHER TURNER : I'll Sleep When I'm Dead was pretty much improvised from my end. As they shot the film I worked at home on material the editor was able to put in as a rough guide for the scenes. I had a good budget so I could test things out in the studio, bring them home, and rework them on the laptop, and then send them to the editor. I think finally I'd made up 9 CD's worth of music for the film. There's over 45 minutes of music in the film, which is a lot these days for me, but a lot of it is very atmospheric and distant, more 'sound design'. The OST is a variation on the music on the film. It's a relative obviously, but I've been able to let the pieces run their original recording length. This is wonderful for me, so there are no edits on the pieces, but I have reworked them a bit and collaged here and there, and also used music recorded for the film and then NOT used. Let's not waste music!
I like to go on set when they're shooting so I can get a feel and see what's going on too. I record wildtracks and maybe hit a few props, talk to the actors, and generally make a nuisance of myself. Now that the film is out, I still see mistakes, and things I'd now maybe change a bit. Because of the time on a film, its always a bit of a rush, and its easy to do too much. Less is more. The Sleep music is really rather hidden, so people shouldn't really notice it too much, but it must stand up as a listening experience only too. Hence the OST.
MS : How did you come to work with former Blockhead Gilad Atzmon, who's on both Swift and I'll Sleep When I'm Dead?
SFT : It's odd. I was asked to compose a documentary about Jerusalem. I knew nothing about what this would really involve, but a music fixer in Jaffa said if I could find Gilad, he was the best. We met, worked, and then started working on my stuff. He's a wonderful player, good and humorous writer, and politically conscious, and we have a trio from time to time with Asaf Sirkis,his drummer.
MS : How does it feel to be the first Mute artist to have an album released solely as a download?
SFT : I'm very pleased about this. It is a fact of life now that record shops are becoming redundant all over the world, so to have a digital download project is essential, as you, or we can buy it anywhere in the world without stepping outside your home, or office. For the next Mute music I hope to have it available in many forms so you can buy it on disc, and download all the separate stages of the making of it, so you can assemble it yourself in another way if you want to. This is very attractive. It's like being able to re-edit a film you like. I'm a happy man about this.
MS : As with much of your material, I'll Sleep When I'm Dead makes extensive use of tapes. What is it that's so attractive about this? Is it the essential randomness of what you might capture, or is it capturing events to create interesting cross-overs? How much do you try to disguise the material and tweak it / process it / loop it? Or do you try to leave it 'as is'?
SFT : I think I do try very hard to just make sure that sound and music work together, [but it's] mostly by accident. I think I like harmony whether its a sound, or music. I don't try VERY hard but I like to get it as near perfect for me as possible.
MS : Are you working on new ideas constantly?
SFT : Everyday used to be a surprise. Now we have a thirteen-month year old small ladygirl, so we wake early and are her masters and slaves. It's been strangely easy to work around her rather slack schedule. She knows no children of her own age, and I spend a huge amount of time with her. At the moment I've been working around her sleeps in the daytime. I can easily get going in second or two. I spend a lot of time editing, and being careful I suppose. Really the new stuff for Mute is all coming along very well, because I'm at home so much I haven't been in the studio for ages, and haven't started overdubbing yet. That's the next stage for me: Mute studiotime, and lots of vocals, string sextet, guitars and more tapes off course.
I'm just back from Jarman concerts in Rome. Peter Christopherson [Throbbing Gristle, Psychic TV, Coil] was also making new music for Angelic Conversation. I'm at stage one of three for the new Mute music next year.
MS : All told, you've been making music for over three decades, and I often hear tell of you being a 'child star'. Given the track record of other such individuals, to still be in the music business - albeit in a totally different sphere - is remarkable. What do you put it down to?
SFT : Right. Well, luck has a lot to do with my life. Its not always good luck, but I've been very lucky with the good stuff. I suppose I've always taken what's offered to a certain extent. I'm a 'Yes' person, not a 'no', and not a great prevaricator either. Yes takes you forward. Off course I hadn't a clue when i was younger. I never really thought about a life in music, although I'd studied piano, violin and clarinet at school. I fell into the music business, and it certainly had some odd side effects when I was young.
MS : I've been listening to the Sex Appeal album on Richmond / Cherry Red, which covers your early period as a protégé of Jonathon King, as well as tracks from the King Of Luxembourg period. Firstly, when were the early tracks recorded?
SFT : I was born November '54, and my parents had to sign a release because I was young; so, 1969-70 I reckon.
MS : I actually think the 'teen idol' songs are quite charming, although there's a large gap between those songs and your current work.
SFT : Hmmm. Yes, a large gap.
MS : Was the King Of Luxembourg just yourself? I thought that some of the tracks looked liked collaborations with your old accomplice Colin Lloyd-Tucker?
SFT : I was the King. Colin and I were Deux Filles, who released 2 LPs on Papier Maché. We pretended to be French girls. Colin and I were also Jeremy's Secret.
MS : I heard from somewhere that you were in the original line-up of The The – is this true?
SFT : I was in the first live line up – Matt [Johnson], Colin Lloyd-Tucker, and Steve Shirlock sometimes.
MS : I just can't get my head around the fact that at the same time as this stuff (which was about 1986-1987), you were deeply involved with the soundtrack work with Derek Jarman.
SFT : It was good to have two hats. Work with Derek was surreal, as was dressing up as yer Majesty. Odd, but neither got in the way of the other. Thank goodness for failure!
MS : Some other albums from your pre-Mute period included the wonderful Revox (on Humbug / Cherry Red), which is something of a 'tribute' album of sorts, and the early Jarman soundtrack Caravaggio 1610, both of which are now sadly out of print.
SFT : Revox I love. I'm getting to re-release Caravaggio, I hope, and do a remix / edit of it and call the new one Caravaggio 1610-2005.
MS : What's your deal with Mute like? Is it fairly open and how do you feel about the presence of the mighty EMI lurking in the shadows?
SFT : My deal with Mute is to do with Daniel [Miller, Mute MD], and no one else. I'm not commercial enough for EMI I think, although I've never asked them. We started putting out Derek Jarman's soundtracks on Mute, and it all started from there. The Ionic [Fine Line] label was to be for soundtracks, and I think I eventually asked Dan if I could make a grown-up record under my own name, and not as a soundtrack thing. So its really lucky again you see. It takes me about three years to pull an SFT album together for Daniel. It's the very best I can do, and it takes ages now because of the process I work with now, which starts very slowly when I discover I've enough music or sound to start a new serious project with. For the films I only have a limited time to work them into shape, but for a solo project I can take as long as it takes, slow and methodical. I get myself into situations where I can only go forwards, and I like this very much. It keeps me on my toes.
As for other releases on other labels, I have no written contract with Mute Records, so I'm in the middle somewhere.
MS : Is the moniker 'SFT' a method of reinvention?
SFT : I think I reinvent myself without really thinking about it. SFT just happen to be my initials, but Simon Turner was pop, The King of Luxembourg was a character invented by Mike Alway, and SFT fits the solo release for Daniel. For films I use Simon Fisher Turner. I have also been Claudine Coule, in Deux Filles, a fictitious duo from France, and I've used various pseudonyms over the years.
MS : What in your opinion is the most exciting type of music today?
SFT : I like the minimal Japanese electronic scene a lot. I'm sort of on the periphery of this whenever I go over there. There's a fine group called Minamo, who never rehearse, always record and play very quietly. At the moment I'm listening to a lot of stuff from Afghanistan.
Kraftwerk at the Festival Hall : best sound and visuals you'll ever see, until you see them again in 15 years or so.
MS : Does other peoples' music still thrill you?
SFT : Yes. Did you see [the] Young Musician Of The Year? 11 year old pianist [called] Ben; genius.
MS : Looking back at this point on an impressive - and in many ways still youthful - career, what would you single out as the major highlight?
SFT : Hmm. Highlights I think can change like the weather. I could say it was wonderful to listen to Robert Mitchum tell stories for weeks, or playing with Iggy [Pop] and Dave [Bowie], in a grotty basement in Switzerland, or any visit to Kyoto; always playing live, and recently with the quartet, there were some very special moments.
MS : Anything you would do differently?
SFT : Not really, as I'm happy as a pig in shit at the moment. So if I moved a second out of time, my life would be very different indeed.
MS : Any parting words?
SFT : Be calm.